Race and Clarence Thomas!
April 11, 2008 by addtrader
I am having a very interesting discussion on race, and specifically Clarence Thomas, over on another blog called Promethius 6. I found it via a link on Trader Mike’s site regarding increasing blog traffic.
It is obvious that there are some extremely intelligent memebers over there, including the blog’s author. However, I am afraid that I am viewed as the dorky white guy (which I am), who is naive to the plight of the black community.
Event thought the intelligence quotient over there is high, I fear the anger quotient is higher.
Let’s see where it goes, this is the link to my comments…
http://www.prometheus6.org/node/20503#comments
By the way….I am currently catching a nice breakout in Potash Corp (POT).
And which do you think came first: the intelligence or the anger?
Well, I learned from visiting your blog not to presume too much….but I am pretty sure I know which came first.
But to me the answer is not important. I am more concered with which of the two is an asset going forward, and which is a liability.
-FAT
P.S. I let you keep your vowels too…….LOL!
If that were the case you wouldn’t have opened up with insults.
Glad you’re posting again.
Jeff
Thanks Jeff.
P6 : I assmue you are talking about my original comments on your blog.
I went back to refresh my memory…..
(begin)
Uncle Clarence
On April 10th, 2008 Formerly ADD Trader says:
The irony of course being that a racist white man did not see Clarence Thomas as a friend to “white society”, or an Uncle Tom, as many racist blacks do. Too many people out there want to have their cake and eat it too. Can Thomas really be a traitor to his race, but still not fit into “white society?”
This always begs the question for me, why would a man spend his life championing positions that alienate him from all sides?
Shhhhh…..don’t tell anybody, it’s a secret!
(whispered) He actually doesn’t see himself through the prism of race. He is indeed truly colorblind, something we are all supposed to strive for, right? And because of that, he does silly things like take positions based on his conscience, and beliefs, and (uh oh, here comes the “V” word) values. Things that transcend race, ethnicity, religion, and nationality.
But hey, it is much more hip to call him an Uncle Tom.
reply
He is indeed truly
On April 10th, 2008 Prometheus 6 says:
He is indeed truly colorblind, something we are all supposed to strive for, right?
No. That’s wrong. It is NOT something we should all strive for. Among Black folks only fools strive for “colorblindness”.
Besides, why should I care if Uncle Clarence can’t tell red from green?
But hey, it is much more hip to call him an Uncle Tom
Nope. Just more accurate.
reply
Among Black folks only fools
On April 10th, 2008 Formerly ADD Trader says:
Among Black folks only fools strive for “colorblindness”.
…because by doing that, they are ignoring the Eurocentric White power structure that is keeping them down? (Sorry, I am in the middle of Huey Long’s biography).
…and using a pejorative 19th Centruy term to describe the totality of a modern day black man’s life and career just seems….I don’t know…..ignorant?
(end)
……And so on….
Insults? Well, in retrospect I do see that. All I can say is that it was meant to be more sarcastic and ironic, to the general point, not the speaker. You know…a “smartass” reply.
Probably not the best way to introduce myself into an ongoing discussion, on a board I am not familiar with. Certianly not the best way to get a serious discussion started.
For that I do appologize. No personal insult was intended.
-FAT
There’s more, and you know it.
Ultimately, the most annoying thing about the thread is that you were TOLD our disdain for Thomas, his EARNING of the title “sell-out” was due to his having sold his sister out, lied on her and his grandmother, to get his current job.
You came in, sure in the knowledge you have a better way to understand our lives than we do. You have NO IDEA how much discipline it took to talk to you like a human after that.
Of course there is more, that is why I put a link to ALL the comments, on my blog. That is also why I put a link to my apology in your blog. I am not afraid to admit a mistake in my demeanor. But I stand by my statements about Thomas.
“You came in, sure in the knowledge you have a better way to understand our lives than we do. You have NO IDEA how much discipline it took to talk to you like a human after that.”
I don’t pretend to know your lives, even though most on your blog seem to think they know the lives of non-whites, and what’s in their hearts. I just know my views on Thomas.
It’s just two different ways we look at things. When a man makes mistakes in his life, I don’t extrapolate them to be against his whole race, because I don’t view myself in that context. Nor do I necessarily ascribe evil motives to it.
On your thread regarding Tookie Williams, you were very much on the side of forgiveness towards him, though he did much worse things than even the worst you believe Thomas has done. What’s the difference?
Sure you do.
Black people’s survival, not to mention advancement, depends on understanding the dominant culture. White people’s survival does not depend on understanding Black folks. For instance, don’t you think all the intelligence you’ve encountered on P6 suggests the anger you saw has some basis?
I don’t care about what’s in your hearts. I care about the pattern of behavior I SEE.
He ASKED for forgiveness. Thomas’ anger against Black folk has only increased over the years…read his autobiography if you doubt it. It’s likely you’ll understand his reasoning.
Is Thomas’ anger justified?
“Black people’s survival, not to mention advancement, depends on understanding the dominant culture. White people’s survival does not depend on understanding Black folks. “
No, black people’s survival and advancement depends on white culture, because it is the dominant culture. And there are tens of millions of white people who are potential allies in your quest, who want the same thing you do. But black society is dangerously close to letting its leaders make the same mistake the made at they did at the dawn of the civil right movement, and setting the cause back decades.
For instance, don’t you think all the intelligence you’ve encountered on P6 suggests the anger you saw has some basis?
Anger is an emotion! Intelligence is not. We all get angry, but the intelligent, (more importantly, intelligent pragmatics) channel their anger into positive actions.
“I don’t care about what’s in your hearts. I care about the pattern of behavior I SEE.”
And the pattern of behaviour of white America to black society in that last 20, 50, 100 years, has been worse…????
“He ASKED for forgiveness. “
But who are you to forgive him, or even suggest it? You cannot forgive someone on behalf of the evils they did to someone else. The only people who have a right to forgive Tookie for what he did were his victims, and unfortunately, they were dead.
“Thomas’ anger against Black folk has only increased over the years…read his autobiography if you doubt it. It’s likely you’ll understand his reasoning. “
I don’t see it as anger, more frustration that blacks have continued (in his opinion) to see themselves as victims. And that if they changed that perception of themselves, and ignore others perception of them, they would have achieved much more by now.
What’s the difference between this
And this
And if you’re all about intelligence rather than emotion, what’s this nonsense about “what’s in your hearts”? Please…you’re squirming and it’s undignified.
I KNEW you’d understand Uncle Clarence.
Well, every published review of the book, even by the WSJ editorial pages, says you’re wrong.
I’m out for two days, covering a couple of campaign speeched in DC, as you know from my site. This is a good place to end it.
Thanks for the suggestion. Even though you have decided to suspend my account at your blog, because you will not be able to censor my posts while you are gone….
I’m suspending your account because I won’t have time to devcowel you while I’m gone. Like I told you there, I don’t care about what’s in your heart, I care about the behavior I see…and your claim of innocent defense of an honorable Uncle Clarence is put to the the lie by your rooting around, demands for coverage of the topics YOU think should be important and other bullshit.
Internet arguments NEVER have to be settled by reason and you obviously aren’t looking for closure, so I’m closing it now. …….
….I think I will choose when to end it on my blog (ain’t the Internet great)?
The mistake that the black leadership made in the beginning of the civil rights movement (which you conveniently failed to respond to), was as follows.
After centuries of oppression, the plight of black society finally saw cracks forming in the attitudes towards them by white society. Millions of whites began to realize the injustices that had been done to blacks, and hungered for a way to help right them.
Key in this group were many Jewish American’s, who saw their own groups history of oppression (which had lasted longer, been more widespread, and whose deadiest chapter had ended less than 20 years before), as a touchstone to join with blacks.
They were in fact in for forefront of the Civil Rights movement, registering voters in the deep South, marching at the front with the likes of MLK, and risking their lives for the cause. For a short time, they and the black leaders of the Civil Riights movement shared a glorious singular goal.
But unfortunately, radicalism reared it’s ugly head in the movement. The moderate ways of Dr. King and others were not seen as doing enough, but more so, the radical elements in the movement only saw the Jews who were helping them as “white”. And as white, they felt that there was no way they could understand the black plight, and thus summarily let them know that their help was no longer wanted.
This was a critical set back for the Civil Rights movement. The considerable resources the Jewish communities possesed, in terms of lawyers, organizers, and networks, would have been invaluable to the cause. But worse yet, the spuringing of these people who gave up their lives, and risked physical danger, was a crushing blow to the psyche of the Jewish American, and to white Americans in general. And colored they way they felt about the black cause.
The movement lost the momentum it once had as radicals and militants moved to the forefront, if not in real terms, certainly in terms of what the media showed the county.
A golden opportunity was lost.
The same thing is happening now. At a time when odds are that we will have a black President, there is still a vocal minority in the black community that would rather focus on the sins of the past, than the opportunities of the moment. Who cotinue to paint American as if it were 1825 in terms of race relations. And who, let’s face it, make their living off of perpetuating conflict between black and white (hello Jesse Jackson).
They are missing a golden moment again.
Gee, THAT is a whole other topic. YOu can answer it though by answering a simple, factual, yes-or-no question.
Are you a Christian?
I’ll take your answer Wednesday.
Take it now……
No, I am not a Christian!
So you’re already going to hell.
I guess that leaves me with nothing left to say to you.
Sounds good.
Good luck on the cause. I will check back in 20 years with you to so how that is going…..
I suspect I will just say “Deja Vu.”